Mason Hawthorne
Creepy writing, 'downer endings' and writing landscapes!
Hey everyone,
Today’s interview is with author Mason Hawthorne, writer of horror and weird fiction published in multiple anthologies as a short story author, and who has recently released his first novelette. The interview will discuss horror and dark subjects, and it was very interesting and so much fun to learn more about Mason and his work.
Chaos Gays: Just to start out and give a bit of an overview, can you tell me a little about the creative things you work on, what you do, and anything we should be checking out?
MH: I write a lot of short stories and novelettes/ long short stories, and I'm perpetually attempting to get a longer piece into the finishing stages (I'm a chronic starter: non-finisher of longer pieces). Most of my stories are horror or horror adjascent, but I work across several genres including fantasy, scifi and weird fiction. I've had short stories in a few collections, and I've just started to dip my toes into self publishing, most recently with my novelette Earworm, which I published last month, and which I'm still pretty pleased with myself about! I've also got a couple of short stories in upcoming anthologies this year, first in Slay and Slay Again anthology of queer horror, which should be available sometime midyear, and then towards the end of the year, the Dark Decades: Listen anthology, which is themed around the 1940s and radio. Aside from writing, I am a sucker for fibrecrafts, I'm currently working on my first big handquilting project, and I also am very into making custom handbound journals.
Chaos Gays: There are so many things there that I want to leap on and talk about, but let’s start with Earworm. What is unique about Earworm as a novelette to you?
MH: Earworm started off as just a couple of scenes that I'd written after a conversation I had with some friends, I had posited the silly question "what if the sky was an eyeball" and we had a few fun arguments about how that would work, and what it might look like, and from there I wrote the first section of Earworm. One thing that I really love in fiction is landscape desciption, and how it can be used to create a mood or atmosphere, and how it can tell you so much about what's happening in the story without having to explain things to you. So when I continued Earworm beyond the first little bit, I wanted to focus on the landscape descriptions, and use a sense of both what is there, and what isn't there anymore to let the reader figure out what might have happened. The other thing that I wanted to play with in this story is the POV, most of the story is in the second person POV, so 'you' are travelling through these alien landscapes, and seeing strange creatures under distant stars. There were a couple of things that I wanted to do with this, first off that it's actually very difficult, I think, to write second person POV in a way where the reader doesn't automatically go 'no I didn't, I wouldn't do that!' and put the story down, and secondly, I wanted to play with the idea of fiction as 'escapism', the protagonist, Hector, is using these alien world as escapism from the pandemic and lockdowns of the 2020-2022 era, but he's also slowly being infiltrated and changed by his experiences. How escapist can it be, when just walking through these strange landscapes can leave you with this thing that is going to change how you exist within the 'real world'.
Chaos Gays: That sounds amazing, honestly. For landscape details, you mentioned that’s a big deal to you in writing… How do you actually form those details? Visual imagination? References? Is there anything you really love about writing landscapes and their influence on the story?
MH: I try to get out into nature when I can, I'm lucky to live in a really beautiful area of Australia, where I can explore a lot of different landscapes not too far from home, so I can take note of the various sensory details that I pick up when I'm wading through a mangrove swamp, or rock hopping along at the base of a sea cliff. I also watch a lot of stuff about space, and the various new studies looking at exoplanets, and what it's like in other star systems far away. For some of these worlds, I was imagining what things might be like, for instance, on a tidally locked planet orbiting a red dwarf, or on a world where it's got a much brighter sun. Art was another thing that influenced me, especially the drawings of MC Escher, the movie The Labyrinth, thinking about disorientating spaces where you can't always tell where you're going, or where you should be going. Nature documentaries have a place here too, thinking about various slugs and insects, and various things, and what might happen if they were the last ones standing. Beautiful slug dances, perhaps. Big hungry bugs, maybe. What appeals to me most about the landscape is that it exists on such a vast timescale compared to a human lifespan, and yet there can be massive changes in a very short time, especially with human intervention. It drives me wild to think about my hometown, which 260 million years ago was a bunch of huge volcanoes, and when you go down to the waters edge you can see layer after layer of volcanic flows, and then sedimentary rocks. And you can see the way the ocean is gradually eating these rocks that have been here for hundreds of millions of years. You can also see what people have done to the landscape, there are massive bluestone quarries, where they've quarried the rock right down to sea level, and then left just a sea wall to block the ocean from flooding right in. When I was ten or so, in one particular quarry, there was a solid wall of stone about six meters high, but now huge parts of that wall have crumbled away, and the sea has started washing over and creating new pools of standing water. Also, looking at paintings from a hundred-and-something years ago, when europeans were first colonising this area, the rainforest swept right down from the escarpment all the way to the sea, but aside from a few reserves, all of those trees were cut down and used for timber, and now there's a whole lot of open farmland grazing cattle and horses. It feels very strange to know that the landscape I've lived in my whole life is really a very violent and recent occurance.
Chaos Gays: So there it feels like the landscape is a big part of telling the story, and the histories, by using details that are noticeable in the land, we can draw conclusions about what happened to your fictional world before the MC came upon it. In that regard, without spoilers, are there any favourite little details like that you’ve managed to include, within this story or another?
MH: In Earworm, one of the things that felt pretty significant to me, is the contrast of built landscape and 'natural' landscape, where because of the nature of the story, the built landscapes are all long dead and crumbling to various degrees, but then how and where does the natural world start reclaiming the landscape? What were the people like who built these places, and how and why did they end up being destroyed by this force which has been unleashed on their world? In one world in particular, the way that the (overwhelming, all consuming) built landscape was constructed actually channels the force and makes it even more deadly. There are also several points where it becomes apparent that Hector isn't the first person who's found his way across to these other worlds, and that the other people he finds haven't had the best of times in their explorations.
There's also a description from my first published short story that I really love, which was a description of the view of a river at just past midday, where the reflection of the sun on the water is bright as a magnesium flare, and leaves afterimages in the eye when you look away.
I do like that interaction of the view and the viewer.
Chaos Gays: So another thing that you brought up is the second person POV. What were the difficulties in writing this? And what avenues as an author did this open up for you that you feel worked well with this story?
MH: I've enjoyed experimenting with the second person POV for a while now, and it's something that takes a lot of balance to pull off. In the case of Earworm, we actually do have a character who gets described in the third person POV scenes, so he has his own sort of reality and solidness too, but in the second person scenes, I had to navigate into the spaces where his personality and actions are easy enough to go along with that they don't immediately alieate a reader (I hope!) I have a writing group that I meet with regularly, and we exchange and read each other's stories, and as I was writing Earworm and sending them each scene, it gave me the opportunity to adjust things based on their reactions. Initially I got a few 'well I wouldn't do that' comments, so I was able to edit the opening to make it feel more roomy for the reader to fit into, and then as the story goes on, just tightening the fit a little bit, so that when You do something that is maybe a little bit uncomfortable, or a little bit sinister, the reader isn't bucked out but kind of settles into the mindset 'would I really do that? Did I do that?' When my writing group friends say stuff like 'I can still feel how awful that mud was' or 'I can't believe I did that', that's when I know that I've nailed the scene and the second person. I think second person POV is a real frog boiling process, you have to give the reader the room to get comfortable, and then slowly ratchet up the tension so the space between them and the narrative you doesn't get wide enough that they can escape.
In terms of this story particularly, I wanted that sense of being immersed in the world, and maybe even a little bit of 'oh this is all just landscape descriptions, this is very peaceful' so that things ramp up it is a slow dawning horror.
Chaos Gays: That makes a lot of sense! So instead of feeling jarring, there’s an increasing discomfort. So, what sort of readers would love Earworm? Are there specific things that you want to share about the story itself to tempt us?
MH: This is a really difficult question, Earworm sits so closely to what I think of as THE thing that I want from a story, it's difficult to say what other people might get from it. But I can definitely talk about inspirations. I think the main preciptiating incident, if you like, before I got serious about writing it, was that I read HP Lovecraft's In the Mountains of Madness, and I loved all the landscape descriptions right at the start, and then was really unenthused by the whole rest of the story. Also around that time I did a reread of the whole Lord of the Rings series, and obviously that juggernaut is packed full of landscapes, and a lot of them have a very horrific feel to them, thinking about the Barrow Downs, which is nightmarish, but is only a day or two walk from the shire, or the Dead Marshes where the history of the war still lurks right below the surface. Stepping back to think about what people other than me might enjoy for a moment, I should probably mention that there are some delightful characters in the 'real' world sections of the story. I wanted to have an older gay couple who would have befriended Hector, and kind of been there as his community and sort of mentors, the way I've had older friends in my life. Full disclaimer, unlike Hector, I have never manifested a world-shattering force in my friends' living room, I'm much more polite than that!
Chaos Gays: I love that. Are you sure about the world-shattering force thing, though? So, when we spoke about this interview, you said that several of your current projects have darker/sadder endings. Is that a conscious decision? And what does exploring those ideas and emotions do for the story, or in many cases the reader?
MH: Well no one can PROVE that I've unleashed any world shattering force in any living room... I do tend toward what I'd call 'downer endings' and it isn't really intentional, like I don't set out thinking 'yeah I want this one to be super depressing!' (well, not always!) Usually I start with an idea, often in the form of a 'wouldn't it be fucked up if--' sort of question, and from there I start figuring out how the situation occurs, and following through with how things are going to go for the characters after this initial setup. The thing is, I find that following through from a horrifying premise, it's pretty often difficult to find a way to end things that makes sense with the events and emotions of the story so far, and is also, like, nice. So I think it isn't so much a deliberate persuit of downer endings, as much as it is that the kinds of story premises that catch my attention often lend themselves to the downer ending.
To me, I feel like the downer ending sometimes gets a bad rap, I don't really go into fiction for 'comfort reads' in the way that it seems like a lot of people do (not a problem, to each their own), so for me an artificially upbeat ending usually feels like a cop out. No matter how much I like the characters, or the setting, and often especially if I really like them, I want the narrative to follow through on what has been set up. I love it when a fuck up has real, permanant consequences, or when an unavoidable disaster can't be avoided. Not in a sadistic, or gloating way, but because it's the follow-through that feels important to me, in terms of the narrative. I think, in part, this is because I also read a lot of non-fiction, especially about the world wars, about ancient empires, about natural disasters, manmade disasters, all that kind of cheery stuff, and the thing that stands out to me in so many real life horror stories is that things OUGHT to have been so easily avoided. If this person had been able to say the right thing to the right person, a hundred thousand deaths could have been avoided, if that general had decided to push an advantage, they could have cut the war's timeframe in half.But how could they have known? In hindsight, these near-misses feel obvious. Why didn't they just push ahead, why didn't they just send that letter, why didn't they just double check the numbers they had...well because they didn't know it would matter. Or they thought that they had a better option. Or they were exhausted.
Sometimes when I'm reading fiction, it can feel like the characters are living in the moment, but with the benefit of hindsight. I don't find this very satisfying. The character knows that they have to do x, y, and z, and then they do! And it works! And then we have to have some other problem crop up to fill in the rest of the word count. I think the downer ending lets the characters have more space to fuck up, maybe they see options x, y, and z, but can't figure out how or why they ought to do them, or maybe x, y, and z are just three out of a few dozen options, and they run off with options a and b, thinking that that'll work (they don't!) or what if the character has worked their way through the whole alphabet already, and by the time they get to x, they're so exhausted they just can't continue? As well, I do think that sometimes it's important to have events happen that happen to the characters, rather than being stuff that the characters do or can influence. Some things you just can't control.
And how do readers react to the downer ending? Well, as you can imagine, there are all kinds of readers, and the reactions I've seen are split. Some people are like 'yeah! Holy shit you actually followed through!' and some people really don't like the downer ending. A person in my writing group actually said to me, after reading one of my downer stories, 'if that were the first thing of yours that I'd ever read, I would be sure to never read another story you wrote', so there's some high feelings!
Chaos Gays: Sounds like it’s very emotive for people, regardless of in which direction, so to speak! So, on that subject really, this is your first time self-publishing, right? How did you find the process, and connecting with readers?
MH: So I was really anxious about the whole self publishing process to start with. I spent months agonising over it, because I have a lot of very talented friends who are self published writers, and I was always a bit overwhelmed by their conversations about the technical elements of formatting, and the specifics of various sales platforms, etc. I am not a very technically skilled person, and I made a few unsuccessful attempts at formatting my book myself using the programs that my friends helpfully recommended, and getting nowhere with it. So then, I was reading a series by Derin Edala, who's work I really enjoy, and I knew that he's self-published, and I thought well, I'll look at what he's using, and it was Draft2Digital, which is kind of an all-in-one service for packaging and selling ebooks. It seemed like it was worthwhile seeing if I could work out how to do it, so I started the process, and it was actually extremely simple! Even with setting up my account and doing the tax forms, (and realising halfway through that I wanted to do another quick edit on Earworm before I finalised it), it only took a couple of hours to go from my draft, to a neat looking ebook! I'm lucky that I can draw passably well enough to make my own cover designs, and now I can't be stopped. I could publish as many books as I want! Finding and connecting with readers is a bit harder, I don't have a huge social media following, and I'm not great at marketing, but I've been trying to do the things that work to get me to buy someone's self published book: posting about it regularly, and including links to where it can be purchased. I suppose I ought to think about finding people with a bit more reach that might review the book, or something like that, but at the moment I'm still jazzed that I got the thing finished and published at all! I did that!
Chaos Gays: That makes sense! And you SHOULD be! So, going forward, what’s coming up on the horizon for you? And is there anything you’re really excited about writing or creating in the future?
MH: In terms of self publishing, I have a couple more novelettes and novellas that I've had sitting around, so I might start thinking about getting those ready for release eventually. I think that the novelette is such a great, versatile form, but it's really difficult to find anywhere to publish them traditionally, as most places want either significantly longer or shorter pieces. My current writing project is a longer piece, which I have recently finished the entire outline of, so in theory I should be able to sit down and start writing, and keep myself strapped to the keyboard until it's finished...so we'll see how that goes! It's an epistolery novel set in space, inspired by disaster documentaries, and Dracula, using the framing device of an inquest into an accident to get at the story. I'm really happy with how the outline looks, and I have the best intentions of finishing this one (and maybe if I tell people about it, they'll be interested and kick me when I inevitably get distracted by the next shiny new idea)
Chaos Gays: Sounds like you’ve got a lot of work on your hands! You also mentioned being creative in other ways! What do those things give you? There are so many ways to be creative and I love talking to people who do many, because it’s interesting how they can interact with each other. Is it a break, or another way of engaging? Do things cross over from your fibrecrafts to your writing and vice-versa?
MH: I find it difficult to sit down and engage with media without something to do with my hands, I'm always listening to audiobooks when I'm out and doing things, but of an evening, if I want to sit down and watch something, and actually watch it, I need something to do. Fibrecrafts really fill that niche for me, once I've gotten through the learning stage and can just do it on autopilot, it's so great for me to be able to actually chill out for once! I haven't really written anything that specifically engages with fibrecrafts, but I think that as a hobby, it's something that really inspires an awareness of the physical qualities of things. It's so easy to go through life without really engaging with touch, and being able to take time, and really get into the detail of how fabric feels, the weight of it, the texture of it, how it will drape, or how it behaves when you do this or that with it, it's an opportunity to be present in the moment and really be in touch with reality. It's a great way to be connected and grounded, and aware, and I think being in touch with that sense of the physical gives me the ability to engage in description in a way that is more than just sight and sound. I think there's a fairly common trope in especially fantasy fiction of the heroine who hates sewing, and wants to pick up a sword, but I think it might be fun to write a character who is just as at home with a needle as with a weapon, and which maybe engages with what makes fibrecrafts, especially historically, something that is so important and also, like, a fairly universal occupation. But I am not currently working on a fantasy story, thank you, I am currently working on my space crash investigation epistolery story! Definitely not starting anything else right now!
Chaos Gays: I love that idea… not that I’m being the devil on your shoulder or anything here… So, we come to our last question, which I’ve started doing as something a little silly. Given what we were talking about, now I want to know: where and how would you have your ‘fuck up’ moment in one of your own stories? Would it be the same as the characters, or do you think you’d last longer? (or run away like a coward like me?)
MH: I think in Earworm, I might have ended up getting into trouble much sooner than Hector, or at least, I can easily see myself getting so distracted hiking through certain worlds that I'd forget about going back to the 'real' world at all. And then probably get eaten by a giant slug. But what a way to go!
Oh hell, I might even have gotten eaten by some animate flowers.
Chaos Gays: Oh no, better watch out for slugs! Thank you so much for talking to me, I had a lot of fun, and hopefully some people will fall in love with your worlds!
For anyone intrigued by Mason Hawthorne’s work, links are included below. Please do go and check them out if you think it might be something for you!
Links
Earworm: https://books2read.com/u/3kOvKn
Tumblr: https://masonhawth0rne.tumblr.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MasonHawth0rne
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/masonhawthorne.bsky.social
